Dress for Success

Bill Bradshaw: Hello and welcome HLB Network. It's great to be with you all today celebrating International Women's Day and our Women's History Month. I am so thrilled to be joined with a good friend of mine, a colleague, a leader in this space, the Global CEO, Michele Meyer-Shipp for Dress for Success.

Michele, great to be with you. Great to have a conversation. Please kick it off with a quick intro before we jump in with our team.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Absolutely. Happy to do it. Thank you for having me Bill. I'm really happy to be here with you and all of your colleagues today. My name again is Michele Meyer-Shipp and I am the CEO of Dress for Success Worldwide, and I've served in this role now for 13 months.

Bill Bradshaw: Wow. Wow. 13 months leading a global organisation. Yep. Lots going on I'm sure. So let's jump in real quick Michele. Let's talk a little bit about the pandemic and beyond. We've seen a bit of decline in women professionals in the workforce. What are some steps that organisations like ours as a global network, a global firm, can take to move the needle to increase representation and bring some of those women back into the workforce?

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So first of all, I'll start here and say there's some good news. So the really good news is I was just reading this recently and actually we are finally back at pre pandemic levels for getting women back to the workforce. The fear is can we keep women in the workforce, right? So everything that I'm seeing with the women that we serve and hearing from the women we serve and just from general workforce demographics and stats suggests that women have come back. We are happy to be back. The question is will we stay there? Yeah. And I think there are a couple of things at play here that we have to care for.

First of all one of the primary reasons women left the workforce during the pandemic outside of layoffs and downsizings was because of childcare responsibilities and other caregiving responsibilities, the predominance of which falls on women.

And again, now being able to return back to some normalcy. Schools are open, you know, hospitals and nursing centres and all of those things are able to take back patients, for example, that women might have been caring from family members. So they were able to go back to the workforce. However, just because they're back to the workforce doesn't mean that they don't require flexibility.

So flexibility and the maintenance of the ability to have flexible work schedules is critically important because like I tell everybody all the time, the pandemic happened and it changed the way we navigate our lives. It changed the way we navigate the world, and flexibility is here to stay. Companies that don't appreciate that are going to lose talent because someone can hop right over to the next company and have a complete flexible work schedule. So flexibility is key.

I think the other thing that we need to do is to make sure that we're really intentional about having a plan for the professional development and mentorship of the women that we do have in the workforce. So what are we doing to make sure they have the tools that they need to grow? What are we doing to make sure that they have leadership support and mentorship to navigate them through as they're working through their career.

I think those things are critically important because if we can do the development, we can do the mentorship, and we have a voice and a way to grow, then definitely I think we see progress in women moving up, retention, engagement all in a good way, and then these women role model leadership, they role model engagement for that next layer of women coming up behind them.

Bill Bradshaw: Yeah super important. When we think about this from a global lens it's quite often difficult at times because we've become US centric, right? Because we sit in the US and we think we're US centric.

But I think from a global lens in your role as well as our role at HLB as a global organisation how do we create that awareness and foster that sense of female representation and why it's so important? As you know being in global roles multiple throughout your career but depending on what country you're in, that looks different on how, and if women are in the workforce or what not. So let's lean in a little bit on that and noodle on that for a little bit.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So let me start here with this one, and I'm actually going to take it a little bit back to your last question about keeping women in the workforce. On the global angle, I want to just point out that women left the workforce and are having a hard time returning around the world for a variety of reasons, even broader than the ones I just described.

So there are transportation issues, there are safety issues. Safety issues that predated the pandemic, for example. So to bring women back depending on the region you're in the country you're in the issues in that particular space, we need to be sure we're taking care of the issues in that space, right? So in one country the issue may be transportation. In another country, the issue may be safety. I remember when I worked at Prudential we literally had to think about how we got our women home from work safely in some regions where it was not safe for them to take public transportation, right?

But that wasn't an issue in another country. So we need to think about all of those things country by country and make sure that she has what she needs country by country. Now, to answer your question about bringing more women into the workforce around the world and the best ways to do that. I think the first thing we have to do is dispel the notion that the female talent is not out there, because it is. In fact, I just read a stat today that talked about the high levels of women, the high percentage of women in college, in grad school, the high numbers of women who are lawyers and doctors, et cetera, who are in other professions. There seems to be this frequent rumor that suggests that we're not there.

We are. And I think it's really important in organisations for companies to go out to find the talent, to go out and foster the talent and engage the talent and introduce the talent to your organisation. I think another thing that leaders like yourself, HR leaders, et cetera, can do is to again, constantly work to dispel the myth that they're not there.

I remember working at another company where they had told me, oh, we can't find, fill in the blank. We can't find X talent anywhere, and I'm like, oh, really? Well, did you happen to know about this organisation and that organisation and this association of professionals? And why don't we go there? They would be happy to receive us and introduce us to the talented members of the organisation. Then I would take them there to these organisations. Oh, there are the women. Oh, there are the people of colour. Oh, there are the, and it goes on and on and on, but you don't know what you don't know, right?

Until you get out of your own comfort zone. So I would say that it's prudent upon our HR leaders, our DEI leaders, to help the business leaders understand the talents there we have to go get the talent, and we have to give them access to the opportunities at our organization.

Bill Bradshaw: That intentionality, I think is, is super key.

That intentionality of the leadership, the buy-in from your leadership is super important, and realising, I think honing in on the fact that what we miss by not having women in the workplace.

So, this year the theme for International Women's Day was Embrace Equity. So I know I've had this conversation with you many a times and we talk about it all the time in our spaces as leaders and diversity practitioners, and whatever is that equity versus equality. So, so many folks will say to me, it's the same thing, Bill. Right? And I'm like, but it's not. So let's dive deeper in that.

Let's talk about the differences, the uniqueness of each of those things and why you feel that, that was a great theme this year as we are coming out of the pandemic, as we are, you know, looking to enhance women globally in the workforce.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I love that question, and I love this conversation by the way.

The theme for this month has, let me have it in so many different places. What's the difference between equality and equity? And so many people don't know the difference.

So let me first start with what the difference is, right? So equality. Is giving everybody access to the same thing, to a level playing field, equal access to exactly the same tools. Equity is giving people access to the tools that they need based on where they're coming from. It means basically to say it another way, meeting the person where they're at. To bring them to parody with others.

I guess the best way I could describe it is if you hire five people into your summer internship program and your summer internship program is going to require people to use four different technological platforms and most of your Interns have used all platforms before, but two of them haven't. You might want to give the other two some extra support or training on the platforms so that they can engage in the platforms just like the other interns can.

It's not all of them showing up going, welcome, you're here. Now you're all going to go and work on these platforms. Good luck with that because you know what's going to happen. The two that never had access to those particular platforms are going to fail. So it's meeting people where they're at and giving them what they need to grow and to thrive.

I would say it's really important in doing that to think about at some point, you know, engaging your HR leadership team your DEI professionals to really do some type of surveying, if you will, or focus groups with your employees to understand do they have the tools they need to succeed, and is there anything that they think they need that they're missing?

That the leaders may not appreciate has been, you know, a lack or of a resource for them. It's really, really important and I think it's really helpful. So, for example, with respect to women, one of the things that women coming back into the workforce right now, Is what I said before, right? That increased and remaining need for flexibility.

Like just don't assume because we're back in the office from time to time or full-time, whatever it is in your respective office, you still have to provide that flexibility because remember we said this at the top, women still bear and carry the primary responsibility for all caregiving needs for their families.

So flexibility remains a static that we've got to offer. So again, meeting her where she's at is really important to make sure that that equity leads to her retention, her engagement, her growth, and her promotion.

Bill Bradshaw: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, a colleague of mine at HLB shared her kind of impression of equity last week when we were chatting about this conversation and she said, you know, everyone may have a shoe, but they need a shoe that fits. It really drove home that message is we can give everyone pairs of shoes, but if they don't fit, they're going to give you blisters. They're going to give you, you know, you're, they're going to fall off your feet. But if we actually give them something that fits them they can actually use it. I give credit to Rita from HLB because she shared that with me. So I thought it was great.

Now Michele, let's talk a little bit about you for a bit. So, dynamic, professional leader and now Global CEO of Dress for Success, which I think is an amazing role for you, and really pivotal. So pivotal for you in your career. Share your journey with us and with the HLB network, navigating the workforce any pitfalls, any detours. And then I'm going to refer to a survey, a poll that we did once you share a little bit about that and let's talk about that as well. So, okay take us to how you got here?

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So, it's really funny. As you just asked that question, I would say that the joke in my house would probably be that I've had a career of detours. But the career of detours has been an amazing career of detours that ultimately got me to this incredible role right now. So, you know, Bill, I know you know this story, so I'll, make it short.

But I literally as you know started my career as an employment attorney and I practiced law for about a decade. It was through doing that work that I came to discover what I liked and what I didn't like about the work, right? So I did not enjoy litigating, I did not enjoy fighting, you know, with adversaries.

I did not enjoy the build-up to the trial. That never happened because it settled at the courthouse steps. Instead, I preferred the counselling. I preferred the helping companies think about proactive policies so they didn't get sued. I liked helping companies think about how they could be more inclusive et cetera.

So fast forward I ultimately left the practice of law and I worked in state government and I ultimately landed in big corporate helping organisations build talent and diversity programs because again I knew that my passion and my focus was more so on that side of the house than it was on the litigation side of the house.

So I started out in corporate America as what you call in-house employment council, and I was the employment lawyer who would sit on the HR leadership team and advise the HR leadership on all things talent and diversity. So here I am doing this job. Life is wonderful. I have no complaints. I had volunteered to lead the legal department's diversity council at Prudential at the time, and I was doing my diversity volunteerism.

I was doing my employment law role. Everything was wonderful with the world, and then one day out of nowhere I get a call from the CEO's office and the call was, "Hey Michele, our global CDO is retiring. We actually think you might be a really great candidate for us to consider to replace him. Would you like to throw your name in the hat for the role?"

I remember going home saying to my husband and calling my father and going, okay, why would they ask me this? Like, did they not think I'm a good lawyer? Like, what's going on? And, my husband said to me, he goes, well, look, they may see something in you that you don't even see in yourself. You know, heck, I mean, I know this wasn't in your plan. I know this wasn't on your roadmap, but you know, you never. know.

My dad said much of the same thing. Long story short, I got the job. I took the job. It was an amazing experience. I actually had about a nine year run at Prudential, and six of those years were as Global CDO, and it was a remarkable experience because It opened my eyes and it taught me about leadership at a whole new level that I had never learned as an employment lawyer, right?

I had to start to think about building strategies, leading teams, managing a budget, you know, managing various stakeholder groups and all of these other things, and that ultimately led me to a couple of roles after that at different organizations where I either led DEI, and or talent in HR.

So before I came to Dress for Success I was the Chief People and Culture Officer at Major League Baseball, and just prior to that I had been the head of diversity at KPMG. It was through all of these roles Bill that I discovered the common theme was that I really was focused on helping underrepresented and marginalised groups thrive, survive, and be empowered to grow in these big systems that we call our corporations.

That's where my focus was. That's where my passion was and that's what I loved doing the most. It was during the pandemic when a lot of people were finding themselves as part of the great resignation, then they actually decided I wanted to be part of something that some have referred to as the great re-evaluation.

Yeah. As you know, my youngest son went off to college. We had an empty nest. I remember sitting back going, okay, you know, I've spent 20 years figuring out how to help corporations get this people piece right, but I really don't feel like I've done quite enough person to person, like to help those who need us the most.

I actually left Major League baseball to take a break. During that break I actually got a life coach and that life coach and I talked about what legacy I wanted to leave, what kind of impact I wanted to have in the world and in my career. I thought, okay, I've done all these cool things. I've had all these great experiences and now my boys are off to, they've gone to college, they're adulting, who else can I help now?

That led me to decide that I wanted to focus my career on more philanthropically focused efforts. And wouldn't you know that literally as I'm having these conversations with this coach, I get a call from a recruiter about the opportunity to consider the global CEO role for Dress for Success worldwide.

When I read the job description, it was almost like my life coach wrote it. Everything that we talked about, everything around, you know, my legacy and what I wanted to do. It was represented in there. The other thing that was fascinating, Bill, was through all these different roles that I had, I learned different skillset sets and all of the skillsets I've learned across each, each of those roles was an element of this CEO opportunity.

So now 13 months into this role, I can tell you though, on any given day, I'm the Chief Strategy Officer. I'm the CHRO. I'm the CDO, right? I am the chief marketing. I mean, on any given day, all of the skillsets that I've acquired are coming up and showing up in this current role and the beauty of it is I just had a call with my team earlier and I asked them, as we wrap the call, I said, what are you all excited about right now? And everybody expressed how excited they were to see the impact we're having on the lives of everyday women every single day all around the world. It just is incredible and every time I talk about it, I get goosebumps. It's just been really, really cool.

Bill Bradshaw: Awesome. Awesome. Sounds a great story. Great. I can see the detours, and the redirects and the turn left, turn right, U-turn, turn around. I mean, that's great. I think that that just shows the tenacity, the agility, and the grit to finally land where you're supposed to be. I think that's one of the things that is resiliency in real time and understanding that our end game might not be the game we're in right now.

But really navigating and understanding all of the things that we do make up where we're going to land. So we did a LinkedIn survey, a little bit ago leading up to International Women's Day, and we asked participants how they supported women in the workplace. Interestingly enough, 57% of the poll responders said they make an effort to support women.

While the other 43% say that they did not, or they were not aware of or didn't know if we did. I found that baffling and I wanted to get your input on that as well, and again, you never know who exactly is responding to these, but the fact of the matter is 57 versus 43, it's almost, you're almost at a 50/50 split of what people are saying they either know or they don't know. Are we either supporting or we're not. What are your thoughts?

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So it's interesting, you know, one of the things I've learned through all of my people related work is that people really don't know what they don't know because they don't have to, right? So I think the first step is, well, I'll say this first.

I'm not surprised at the numbers because of everything I've seen over the years. I think what it's really important for us to do as leaders in our organisations is to make sure that no one who is employed for us has an excuse to say they didn't know. I think it's prudent upon us to make it very clear that, okay, we have women in our workforce, you know, here is where we need your support.

Here is where we need you engaged. We have to educate them on all things, right. Related to the topic. I think that things like employee resource groups, business resource groups, et cetera, are really great ways to get people engaged. I think another way to really get people engaged around this topic, I found it to be quite magical, is when you think about everyone in an organisation has to have individual goals that they're working towards during the year.

Some of those goals should actually include a goal around how an employee is going to help the company navigate its inclusive culture. What are they going to do to that end? So if they're required to actually build it into their objective setting, they have to actually think about, Hmm, now how am I going to do this?

Maybe I'll join BRG maybe I'll go to some BRG events. Maybe I'll raise my hand to volunteer at that Dress for Success volunteer engagement, whatever it may be. So that they can get engaged so that they can hear, see, and experience kind of what some of the issues are, what some of the challenges are, and then they can personally see how they can tap in.

They might show up and realise, oh wow, you know, I haven't really been a great friend to my colleague or my peer, and wow, I didn't really realise she was struggling with that. Maybe she and I can share some of this responsibility or, wow, she really just needs a mentor. Let me help her with that. Or vice versa.

But until you are made aware of and pulled into, right, the space, the excuse of, I didn't know what I didn't know. Is always possible to come up because people without, unless they're giving a reason, they're not going to come out of their lane. Right? So you've got to give people a space to come out of their lane, and once they become aware, I think it's highly likely that they will engage.

Bill Bradshaw: Yeah. That awareness component is, is so important. I'm going to pivot for a minute and this wasn't in my initial thoughts, but now that I'm thinking about it we've seen this so many times, that concept of women not supporting women in the workforce, right? And so I got here, but you don't know how hard it took me to get here.

And instead of the lattice, we have the ladder. And the ladder only goes one way, right? As you were saying that, I was thinking in my head how we, if I, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that, because I think that's real. Share with me a little bit on, you know, of some insight on how you feel about that.

I know we've all seen it happen. It may have happened to us at times as me as a non-female, it happens, right? It can happen to anyone, but I think sometimes with our female representation and our female identified folks in the workforce, we don't always see that mentorship, sponsorship, you know, relationship happen intrinsically, like you have to really intentionally do it. Share maybe if we've seen it, some good examples and some where it's not.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So I have seen this phenomenon that you described, and I'm trying to figure out the most diplomatic way to say it. But I have seen instances wherein whether it be women or other underrepresented groups are so unfortunately used to being the only one in a space.

That the minute somebody else shows up that looks like them, they're like, oh, wait a minute. This is my space. Right. There's not room for you. I've actually seen that happen and it's actually unfortunate because it just goes to show you about what I think is the trauma that the systems we've worked in have put upon us such that we feel that we can't make room for anyone else.

So the first thing we have to do is our own self-work. We have to do our own self-work to make sure that we are constantly thoughtful about being inclusive of everyone. Yes, even the people who look like us and that we are supportive of them and embracing of them, and that we think about it in a we mindset, not a me mindset.

Then really, I think it is really all about that engagement and that support. Mentorship is critical. Networks are critical. I mean, I will tell you that in that story of detours I mentioned earlier, not one of the opportunities that I had was because I just looked online and found a job and applied for it.

It was somebody that I knew in my network. It was a mentor. It was a sponsor. It was somebody that said, Hey, I know that you're really good at X and I know that you're ready to take a next step, or, I know that that turned me on to an opportunity. Right?

So I think it's really important that people recognise it's not just the substantive, what you know, that helps you grow and move in your career. But it is the relationships, it is the network. It is all of that, that helps you. So we've absolutely got to make room for and support each other all across every aspect of diversity, because you know, we are, I know it's corny, Bill, you know this phrase, but we are together for better right? So we've got to really work to support each other in moving forward.

Bill Bradshaw: It's interesting you say that because at HLB, you know, our title is together we make it happen. So it really ties into that together for better notion. So, two more questions. I'm going to pitch out there and we've touched a little bit on the next one, but I want to hone in specifically because I always love to leave our audience something they can take away, right?

So we do a lot of these kind of conversations and folks listen in and I always want to make sure we leave them with something. So maybe some advice, some successes that you've seen that would benefit the audience, the members of our HLB network to take away from this.

What initiatives and programs might stick, I guess is my first question, and then personally, and we talked a little bit about it what is your legacy and how would you like to see the workforce change for better?

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So I might answer these out of order, but I'm just going to go for it. The legacy piece for me is easy because this was the piece I worked so closely on with my life coach when I made this transition and when I looked back over the course of my career and really was able to appreciate all the benefits, the privileges, the perks, the access, the amazing things that this 20 plus year career has given me.

I realised that there were so many other people out there who haven't even seen a sliver of it that I wanted to leave as my legacy. I've helped bring those people forward. I've helped engage and support them in whatever way possible. So for me, it is the transforming of women's lives every single day that I want to leave as my legacy.

What's really cool about it is in 13 months, I know that I have at the very least done that for at least 13 women real time. Like literally one woman told me, she's like, your organisation saved my life. It doesn't get any better than that. So, so that's when I think about legacy, that's what I'm thinking about.

Tips and ideas for success. I can talk about individually and then like kind of more corporate and group wise, but just individually. What I like to tell people is it really important not only to be solid as a rock substantively with the work that you do, whatever your expertise is, master it continue to grow, but also you have to build relationships.

You have to know how to network and you have to take risks. Every career move that I made was a risk. Every one of them had some unknowns and uncertainties for several of them I was scared to death, but if I hadn't taken the risk, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. Right? So build the relationship, take some calculated strategic risks, and be the best at your craft that you can be, so that you can thrive and grow.

Then I would say for organisations. It really is about creating that inclusive environment. We're having conversations like this, right, with different people from different backgrounds and different parts of the world all the time. Because every time we have a conversation like this, we learn from each other.

We learn how we can get better individually, we learn how we can get better as an organisation we. We learn some best practices, perhaps that other organisations are doing that can help us grow. So I would say to continue on this path, continue to engage, continue to support because it does pay dividends.

And then just selfish plug, you know, support organisations like ours when you're out there and when you're looking to give back. Do it as a group, do it as a team. You know, community engagement is critically important and it helps with team building, relationship building, et cetera. So those would be my thoughts.

Bill Bradshaw: Stay on that for a second, where you said give back and give to organisations like yours. Tell us a little bit about the success of Dress for Success. Lean a little bit in that and talk globally on what your successes have been for your organisation.

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to do that. So one of the things people don't know is that we have over 140 affiliates in 24 countries around the world. So depending on where you're sitting, we might actually have an affiliate in your neighbourhood. So you just, you can Google us dressforsuccess.org/affiliates and you can see a listing of where we are.

All of our affiliates are basically small owned businesses, mostly women owned, some actually run by men, which is pretty cool, And each of those locations is literally a small workforce development centre. In each of these locations, we are providing workforce development services for unemployed and underemployed women.

These women range from high school senior who's not college bound and needs a job. All the way up to the 60 plus year old woman who's trying to find that last job that she has before she goes off and retires into the sunset and everything in between. So over the last year, the women we've seen have been women looking to come back to the workforce after taking a break during the pandemic, or women looking to come back to the workforce after being fired or laid off during the pandemic.

All the way to the woman who's making a career change. A woman who moved and you know, came to a new community and needed to find a new role. To women who have had the most traumatic of situations. So women who are literally human trafficking survivors, domestic violence survivors, addict recoverees who are coming out of addiction treatment, women coming out of incarceration.

So on any given day, the women coming in and out of our doors is completely different. By the way, Over 50% are single mothers, and over 60% are women of colour from all cultures and backgrounds, and they literally are looking for help getting on their feet. So we focus on career coaching, job skills development, upskilling and reskilling.

Coaching and mentoring, and what most people know us for is suiting and professional attire. So that's how we started. That was our bread and butter, but now it's so much more. But a woman can literally show up to us and say, hey I'm a human trafficking survivor.

I'm trying to get a job and I don't have anything to wear and she will come to us and we will assign someone to her that will work with her all the way from getting her dressed, to getting her resume ready, to prepping her for interviews, to connecting her with jobs. So it's a really, really cool cool, cool opportunity.

Over the last 25 years, we've impacted millions of women with getting jobs and improving their financial wellbeing. What's happened with them is they've in turn, gone back into their communities and are doing the same for women in their communities. So it's just really amazing and inspiring to watch these women are indeed my heroes.

Bill Bradshaw: Awesome. I love to hear that evolution of students for success all the way to that 360 involvement there. It really shows the full circle of services that your organisation does. I think it's so impactful and, you know, I've been fortunate to sit amongst some of those folks that are, are leading your work and, and really watching them turn their passions right back into action and give back.

Once someone has given to them, you give back. So I want to end the conversation with one of our favourite topics, and I know it's yours and mine and many of the folks that are on the call is allyship. Allyship comes in many different forms. It has many different meanings. It's a noun, it's a verb, all of these things. But I want to specifically hone in on male allyship.

In our profession, in the financial service profession it is what it is. Right. We both sat in, in roles that have, have been in this same sector and, you know, how can men support their female team members is the first question, and maybe you share your input on how a male allyship has supported you or has enabled you to move you to a new career or another level within your current organisation?

What I think happens so often is we get so tunnel vision and these are women initiatives led by women, only women, and I recall when you and I were working together you very distinctively asking the question and I did the same to our women's ERG, where are the men? Yes, I did and everyone just kind of looked at us and just was quiet for a minute. Right? And by the way, that's true leadership teaching another, another generation how to lead because I asked the same question when I looked around the room at our women's initiatives group.

So know what, where are these male allies? Why are they important? How can they support their female team members? And then maybe we round it out with a story on how you were impacted by male allyship.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I love your compound questions, my friend. They're just great. So, so look, here's the deal. I mean, allyship is critically important and it definitely is a verb, and it definitely requires all of us to engage, right?

Mm-hmm. So I think about it this way, not to be too geeky about it, or formulaic about it, but when you're dealing with women or any other underrepresented group, we are the underrepresented group. It's just a pure fact when you look at the numbers, right? So in order for us to grow, in order for us to be engaged included, and be promoted within, and for us to stay, we need to be embraced by the majority in the space.

If the majority in the space is mostly male, if it's mostly one ethnicity versus another, whatever it may be, we need the folks who are in the majority to be the allies for us to engage with us, to mentor us, to support us, to help us grow. Because we can't do it without you, right? We don't know what we don't know.

We have no idea how to navigate and figure things out. So the allyship is critically important, and allyship can be any and everything. From mentoring to coaching, to sponsoring, to just showing up and being engaged, you know, in events like this, to asking questions, to checking in, to seeing what your colleague needs.

You know, if you see something's going on, to sit down with her and say, Hey, I noticed you know, you weren't able to get this situation done here, is there anything I can do to help you? Any and everything in between. For me, I will tell you this, when I think about all the people in my career who have been allies, interestingly enough, they've mostly been men.

It started from literally day one when I made the decision to leave the practice of law. It was a male mentor of mine who knew that I was looking to move, and he was the one who without me knowing, went out and told people about me, and I ultimately got called for my next opportunity. Then when I went to that next opportunity, my boss became a mentor and an ally, and then he took an interest in supporting my growth and development.

He made sure, Hey Michele, did you know about that professional development program? I think that would be good for you. You need to go take it. I would've never known about it, and he did that for me all the time. There came a point in time in which he called me and said, Hey, I think you've outgrown this job. I think you're ready for the next leap. Would you consider X? Well, guess what? You're going to get a call about X and I want you to go take that job.

So every single place I went, last example I'll give you. When I went to Prudential and when I became the global CDO, it was the CFO a gentleman by the name of Haroun who took me under his wing and as my ally, again in, in a very verb like manner. He came in and he sat me down. He's like, let me teach you about the budget. Let me talk to you about our global footprint. Let me talk to you about our P and L sheets. Let me take you through, and thank God he did that because I would've, I was clueless. No one had, I'd never done it before. So allyship comes in all of those ways.

You heard me. Coaching, mentoring, sponsorship, teaching, supporting, reaching out. All of these gentlemen did this for me. And to this day, several of my allies and mentors are men helping me do this work to support the women of my organisation. So it's just, it's incredible and it's very organic and when you get going with it, you don't even realise that you are actually engaging as an ally.

Bill Bradshaw: Awesome. Awesome. Well, what a great conversation. It's always, it's always a pleasure to sit down with you and, and, and navigate a conversation on where you are and what you're doing and what's new and just watching you do all the great things you do from a personal lens and a professional lens I think it's great.

What I want to make sure we leave our folks with you know, our 156 countries that we have around the world in the HLB network, our more than 38,000 folks that are part of the network is let's make sure that we, we stay in touch. I think it's important to leave contact information, so I know we'll have a slide that comes at the end of the, of the conversation with your information.

But one of the things as a young leader Michele taught me was always to, to follow people that amplify voices that are not yours. Yes. So go on LinkedIn, follow Michele is a suggestion I have for our folks. As, as a take, a real quick takeaway from today is go on, go on LinkedIn, follow someone like Michele.

Follow another leader that is not like you. Take the time to facilitate conversations amongst your teams. about topics that Michele and I chatted with over the last 40, 45 minutes. And lean in, you know, take that time to lean in. It is so pivotal right now. We are at turning points throughout the nation, throughout the globe.

There's multiple things that impact our day-to-day lives that are outside of our four walls from where we sit, you know, acknowledge that. I think it's super important. Michele, any final thoughts before we, we end?

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: No, I just want to say thank you all for having me. I hope that you found some nugget of a takeaway from this conversation and Bill, it's always great to be with you. So thanks for inviting me to be a part of this discussion.

Bill Bradshaw: Always a pleasure. Thanks again and we'll catch you soon. Thank you.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Thank you.